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Friday, January 02, 2004

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Koizumi Visits Yasukuni Shrine :

» Flying Yangban on Yasukuni Shrine from The Marmot's (Final) Hole
I'm pretty much of the same mind as the Yangban on this one: Personally, I'm of a mixed opinion about the whole thing. While I certainly don't condone honoring war criminals, if anyone said that the president of the United [Read More]

» Demonstrators rally against Koizumi's visit to war shrine from Solomonia
Boston: Demonstrators rally against Koizumi's visit to war shrine TOKYO (AP) Demonstrators in Seoul and Tokyo protested Friday against Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's visit to a shrine honoring Japan's war dead the day before, saying it dam... [Read More]

» Yasukuni Shrine: A momument to Japanese revisionism from Shuxie
http://www.links.net/vita/trip/japan/spirit/yasukuni/pix/distance.lg.jpg Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi of Japan went once again (that's his fourth visit in four years) to visit the (Shinto) Yasukuni Shrine on 1 January. As you can read on the websit... [Read More]

Comments

Alexandre

Uh, I would have to disagree with you on that. Most countries who had earlier committed atrocities in some war or another have offered a public apology (not only 'regrets'), and made amend for it. Germany is the outstanding example after WW2.

But in the case of Japan, not only have they _never_ apologised, they also continue to teach revisionist history in school, and the historians who want to inquire on the Nanjing massacre for instance receive death threats (see 'The Rape of Nanking' by Iris Chang).

That's why, basically, a few billion people in Asia could legitimately object to such a visit. Just imagine for a moment how you would feel if the German children continued to learn in school that what they did in 1933-1945 was the right thing.

oranckay

I'm with the commenter above.

Japan has been allowed to go scott free, while no Western country would stand for Germany pretending it had done Jews and the rest of Europe a big favor by creating Volkswagen (one of my favorites, created by Hitler), while Japan still has a hard time admitting that it isn't God's gift to East Asia. No German leader would be allowed to pay homage in an official capacity and on a yearly basis to anything that houses anything about convicted war criminals, though the graves of regular war dead would of course be another matter. Yasukuni isn't exclusively about them Class A war criminals. Apparently there are tablets (위패) of thousands of others as well, but the place certainly is a focal point of the far and unrepentant right, and Koizumi is clearly trying to appeal to that element by going there.

It's also something about the way he goes about it. So... religiously.

I suppose if Japan truly made the effort to come to terms with its past, then I'd think its neighbors would eventually become a little less sensitive.

Christopher

Reading The Rape of Nanking now, I can only assume the thought of such terrible shame keeps the Japanese government from making an apology. But of course I believe that in a way of how this world works that the two atomic bombs were punishment for such atrocities. The problem is the Japanese government doesn't acknowledge that it is punishment.

The Yangban

" fourteen class A war criminals are among the 2.5 million people enshrined at Yasukuni"
That is not a bad ratio.

Having lived in Korea for the past five years, I'm certainly not going to go to bat for the Japanese regarding their actions in WWII. Having said that I'm convince that if we would have lost the Big One, a lot of folks, from Truman on down, would have been put on trial.

The Japanese have apologized several times but only in broad terms. I doubt that they would ever be able to apologize enough to satisfy Asian critics.

Now, IF the tablets of the 14 convicted war criminals were removed, would the controversy die? I doubt that too.

angus

alexandre

lets get one thing straight here, apologies for atrocities committed during warfare are the exception, NOT the rule. MOST countries have never apologized for what until recent times were standard tactics accepted by all sides. you attack, loot and destroy the city, kill all the men, rape the women and sell the survivors into slavery. and if you have style like the romans did, you also sow the ruins to salt. don't recall rome, carthage, persia, egypt, the vikings, the franks, the english, the french, the spanish, the north koreans, the russians or the americans [yes kids, think the american west, the philipines and vietnam] ever apologizing for scorched earth tactics. but the germans have.

oranckay

yasukuni is a shinto shrine. how do you expect the prime minister of japan to act while he is in a temple? irreligiously? this place is a monument to all of japanese soldiers killed in war since the meji restoration, to criticize him for acting in a respectful manner is as ridiculous as criticizing bush for visiting arlington in a respectful manner.

as for the japanese apologizing to the rest of asia i agree with yangban. you've heard about all that will be said. no amount of bowing and scraping will ever satisfy the chinese and koreans on this issue and it appears that tokyo has figured that part out.

lux bearer

"the americans [yes kids, think the american west, the philipines and vietnam] ever apologizing for scorched earth tactics. but the germans have."

angus

and until the americans make amends there will be no shortage of people who are willing to blow themselves up just to sting the americans

oranckay

TO ANGUS: Pardon for allowing the misunderstanding but by "religiously" I mean the regularity and determination and symbolism. Of course it's a shinto shrine and naturally he's going to be at least formally religous about it while he is inside.

TO YANGBAN'S COMMENT "Having said that I'm convince that if we would have lost the Big One, a lot of folks, from Truman on down, would have been put on trial."

Possibly. But I guess convicted Nazi war criminals were just unlucky, that what they did was criminal only because they lost the Big One. Poor guys. Let's say nothing if Germany eases restrictions on far-right groups, Nazi symbols, and when a German chancellor goes to bow before a the name of Adolf Eichman. After all, his only crime was being on the losing side.

YANGBAN'S OTHER COMMENT - "Now, IF the tablets of the 14 convicted war criminals were removed, would the controversy die? I doubt that too."

I think it would help in big way. After all, a lot of Koreans fought on the side of the Japanese in Southeast Asia, so it would be hard to get upset about paying homage to lower level people (and I myself would do as much).

Consider this from the Chosun's latest editorial on the issue:

"If Japan ever had any desire to maintain a minimum of decency towards the Asian nations that suffered from its aggression, then it wouldn't have so readily given up on the idea of constructing a new facility to enshrine war dead that excluded the Class A war criminals"

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200401/200401020028.html

Elysion

I disagree with Flying Yangban, too!

It's all not about one certain apology or one visit. i think what makes asian neighbors so angry is the repeated and "celebrated" symbolism in japanese actions. In fact Japanese see themselves as the better race...even today and how should they apologize to those underclass people...they constantly provoke their neighbors with a sense of inappropriate (i don't know the spelling :D) actions which is really remarkable. And: We loose the right view: It's not the attitude of the victims that has to be changed, it's the attitude of the country which is responsible for all the crimes that has to change!

(sorry, it's hard for me to explain it in english because german is my native language)

Sugar Shin

Hallo Elysion,

wenn Du wirklich Deutscher bist, dann wirst Du diese Zeilen wohl lesen können. Komisch, bist der erste Deutsche, der mir hier in der Koreablogger-sphäre über den Weg läuft. Auf alle Fälle ist Dein Englisch beneidenswert gut.

Werde mir in Zukunft Deine Kommentare hier genauer anschauen.

Tschüssikowski!

Elysion

Hi Sugar Shin ^^

Du bist auch der erste Deutsche, den ich hier sehe :D Bist du in Korea ? Ich flieg am 15. für 3 Wochen und wohne in Seoul Jungmuro (Han Suites, falls dir das was sagt ^^)

Danke fürs Englisch-Kompliment *fg* *^^*

Let's switch back to English so that our fellow page viewers can understand what's going on, too :D

Sugar Shin

Ok, Elysion.

No, not a German, but a lost Korean dude (gyopo)residing in Germany. I grew up in Germany, so I'm a half-compatriot, hehehe.

I wish you fun & a good time in Seoul.

Elysion

Are you registered at Kyopo.de ? ^^

kyopowatcher

Hi all, just a warning to watch your back around KYOPOS. If there is a war between Japan and Korea or USA and Korea. I hope that the backstabbers get put in jail. Sadly this was done to the Japanese who proved themselves in valor. Koreans have not.

Sugar Shin

Hey kyopowanker,

the internment during World War II was applied to Japanese-AMERICANS, and not only Japanese. The rest of your post is surreal crap.

Note to Yangban: sorry for my language.

Elysion

please just delete this post...i didn't even understand what this retarded poster wanted to say, but I think it was absolutely crappy :D

Little Kim

Let's talk about the ruthless thugs who nuked Japan twice to its innocent CIVILIAN people, millions of innocent Japanese children and woman died in cold blood.

Oh No

Too bad Truman didn't nuke Tokyo instead, it will end this controversy. Sink Japan sink into the Sea of Corea!

DH

As a Japanese, I deeply feel sorry for other countries that suffered so much in World War 2.
I think this is very natural feeling to have as a human.
I just wish we were like Germans who seems to be good enough to show thier regrets.


Talking about Yasukuni, I personally hate to see any Japanese prime minister visiting the shrine.
That paticular shrine, has never been independent from Japanese nationalism.
One thing really bothers me is that they still enshrine people regardless of surviving familys' intentions.
Once they decide who to be enshrined, you don't have a choice even if you were a brother of the dead member.
Any freedom? No.
That is, obviously unconstitutional, isn't it?
Japanese have accepted the judgements of the war criminal trial, and that was a good action to clear the past to move on. But the government still wants some ghosts to be alive. I don't think we need that.

And most impotantly, I agree with Elysion stating "In fact Japanese see themselves as the better race"
Ah......yes, I was shocked by the fact...that so many of us are so discriminative than I thought.
Ironically enough, I found that when I came to the United States.
There are so many racists all around the world, even Chinese or Korean, but some Japanese....are paticulary looking down on other asian people. I guess economic success made us insolent. Not all the Japanese...I have to add this....however.....The way we act really reflects our thoughts..... such a shame.....

Having A-class criminals enshrined and the prime minister visiting them, doesn't look like the best choice to me.
At least we can quit the "official visits"....
We don't have to have "World-wide standard".... I just think that this is going to be no good for asian countries, especially Japan itself.

JP

The main issue I see as the problem for Yasukuni shrine is that it is a religious temple of Shintoism. Unlike Christianity which believes in afterlife of heaven and hell, Shintoism is a shamanic religion that often communicates with the dead to focuses on current life and situation. As for Koizumi's visit to Yasukuni, It would be equivalent to German Prime Minister visiting Hitler's Shamanic Priest. This is the reason why Yasukuni is fundamentally different from Arlington cemetary.

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